Cavalier Connection Message Board

[WoodHaven]

[tara]

Rod, you and I both know that if breeders like Sandy "moved on," those of us pet people would be in a lot of trouble.
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Tara and Holly

[Debby and Barkley]

MOD NOTE: can we please remember to be courteous here. This is the friendly board.
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Debby with a Y, Barkley the Cavalier, and Sweet Pea the ETS

[WoodHaven]

[Jay]

Instead of going into instant attack mode, maybe it would be better to offer positive examples of what people can do to help fight SM and MVD. I agree that prospective puppy buyers should only get puppies from breeders who fully health test. But along with world peace….this is a lofty goal. We all know that many uninformed puppy buyers will go for the cheapest puppy or the easiest puppy to attain. Many of us will not be looking to add a new puppy to our homes for many years.

But what we all can do is facilitate research. Research is needed to give breeders better tools when choosing dogs to breed. Research is also needed to provide better therapies for those dogs already diagnosed with both SM and MVD. If the prevalence of CM is as high in Cavaliers as research is suggesting and if CM is implicated in the formation of syrinxes, then we all need to be concerned about finding therapies to help affected dogs.

I don’t want to hear about how much money has been raised for MD without finding a cure as some people on this board always seem to bring up when discussing research . Research HAS practically eliminated polio and small pox in this country. Research has found therapies for many types of cancers. Research has allowed deaf infants to successfully utilize cochlear implants. Many of the severely handicapped children that I work with daily would not be alive today without research. The list goes on and on. And no, we no longer live in medieval times so I don’t want to hear about how experts used to believe that the world was flat. Nowadays, published research must be peer reviewed. We have tools now that “experts” in the past could never have dreamed of.

So here is my “positive” contribution.

Here are a couple of places that we can contribute to help fight SM and MVD in our beloved breed.

Purchase a book with proceeds going to SM research.

http://www.fortheloveofollie.com/index.php?pag=buy

The Darcy Fund, a fund dedicated to fighting MVD.

http://www.ackcsccharitabletrust.org/darcy.htm

Please add more links if you know of other organizations that fund research .

Happy life everyone, I am going to hang out with Jeanie. I am so done.

J.
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[rodrussell]

[Kodee]

In Canada there most certainly are programs organized by the Canadian Club and breeders to collect data for SM and MVD. The following research program for CKCS in Ontario can be contacted:

MRI scanning or MVD testing (by appointment):

http://www.mbvs.ca (Matheson Boulevard Veterinary Services: Jane Sykes)
http://www.vetemergency.ca (Neurologist: Dr. Duque, Cardiologist: Dr. Minors)
http://www.uoguelph.ca/campus/map/smallanimal (Neurologist: Dr. Wolfe, Cardiologist: Dr. O'Grady)
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Kodee, Becky and Debbie

"How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours." ~Wayne Dyer

[loveacav]

I lost my beloved cavalier to SM at the age of 3 1/2. I flew him to LI NY to be part of the grant studying SM. All the tests were performed and he tested positive for SM with Cervical and dorsal Syrinxes. I allowed them to preform cranioplasty surgery, knowing that it can only, at best, halt the progression of the illness. After seven months, lots of research and speaking to Sandy (For the Love of Ollie) in Canada I learned more than I ever though I would about SM. Unfortunately Ollie was experiencing more pain than I though he should and put him down when he was just 3 1/2 rather than let him suffer. I missed him so much and after crying for three months I decided to get another Cavalier. I researched and found a breeder who (bred for health) which I'm sure most do. I decided to take a chance as there are no guarantees in life. I can't hold her responsible if my new cav get SM. All I can do is hope he doesn't. It's not fair to hold breeders responsible for something even the experts don't know the cause of. What we need is more low screening MRI's across the country and that's something that owners and breeders can do. Write or call your closest teaching hospital and ASK if they will set aside two days a year for low cost MRI screening and work to educate everyone you meet who owns a cavalier or breeds cavaliers to take part in these programs. Right now I know that Cornell (Dr Dewey) and LIVS in Plainview NY (DR Marino) have low cost screening available to anyone including breeders. Cost $500.00 for MRI, BAER test, Sonogram, Tomography, Ultrasound . they are especially looking for breeders and those who have a-symtomatic dogs willing to have them screened (especially if you have a pedigree) . they are searching for the answer. But, we all need to help if we want to save the breed, not argue and try to place blame. It will take years and lots of people willing to participate. How many of you with a healthy cavalier 4 or 5 years old would be willing to have it go through the tests and be put under and anestetic for research? That's whats necessary. I plan to do it with my new dog when he reaches 3 years God Willing. Maybe his results will help find the cause. STOP ARGUING, PLACING BLAME AND TRY TO COME TOGETHER. This type of name calling is doing no good for any of us nor for the benefit of the breed.
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Lost my first love to SM at just 3 1/2.

[mollynj]

I'm so sorry you lost your dog. I remember when you were trying to save him. Your post and those of others here are well said. I think the blame game especially directed at people who are trying to help solve the issues is so counter productive. The effectiveness of the protocols proposed are not yet shown to be definitively effective in eliminating/reducing the disease. I would still prefer a breeder who is knowledgeable and tests when possible if I wanted a pup.

We've had several dogs go through the testing/research program at LIVS. The results were that all the dogs we tested had the CM but none yet have SM. And who can know what the future will hold for them. I've seen dogs in the pain the disease causes and I pray none of our dogs progresses.

If you are not familiar with LIVS, you can read about their research project and CM/SM on this link. I am encouraged by this info on testing with other than MRIs from them:

http://www.livs.org/livsnews.htm :
quote (emphasis added): "The diagnosis of CM &SM in dogs can only be confirmed by MRI which is essential for the detection of syringomyelia. [b]Studies at LIVS suggest less involved screening tests like the Brain Auditory Evoked Response (BAER test) may be helpful in screening patients in the future. Current diagnostics like Spiral CT and Thermography are under investigation for their usefulness in screening dogs at LIVS."[/b]

The cost of testing, the invasive nature of it with anesthesia, etc. and the need for subsequent MRIs in the future will preclude so many dogs from being voluntarily included in the the testing/research projects. Unless the research testing can include a random selection of all kinds of cavaliers (not just those used by breeders or owners who may suspect SM who are willing to spend the money), I don't think we can know the true incidence of percentage of effected dogs. I wish everyone involved with the breed could donate to a fully funded project so faster progress could be made. Hopefully a better/cheaper method of diagnostic testing can be found soon. I think that would significantly improve the volume of dogs tested. Gene research is a must too. Just my opinion FWIW.
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Casey, Katie, Murphy, Suzie, Spike, Penny,
Molly and crew

[loveacav]

Hi,
I agree fully. Hopefully there will be a newer test, not as expensive as most places. I'm not sure if LIVS is accepting healthy cavs for the $500.00 testing anymore or if the grant has expired. I know they had free follow up MRI for any dog that underwent cranioplasty surgery with them but my Ollie was to ill to take him from FL to NY again. that's another problem since there are so few places offering low cost MRI. I hope to work with some people I know to see if we can get a day or two at Gainsville FL. But on the subject of purchasing a pup from a breeder I have been in a two month long search and unfortunately have found that even the high priced breeders who claim to have had their dogs certified for heart , hip, patella eyes only give you the heart exam because AKC offers it at some of their functions at a nominal cost. On my pups pedigree only a few have been MRI'd and they are the grand sires in Eng. I found the breeders to say things like I have never had a dog with Mitral valve, SM, hip, eye etc problems in my 10 years of breeding. How can you tell. I purchased a 6 month old as my Ollie showed early symptoms of SM (4 months) and felt an older puppy would be better. Well, to my surprise the breeder had kept the dog for a stud, then he developed undershot jaw, decided to sell and although I love the little guy to death he did not come with the required papers, she does not answer e-mails once she got her money, has over 100 dogs in her home and is a well known breeder and although she claimed she set up a MRI reduced clinic she never had her dogs done because she didn't have the time. the other problem is there is no requirement for an MRI'd dog to be listed on any site where it says their rateing. Certainly not the AKC. They don't want to interfere with any of their breeders. I have seen on this site where there was someone who had MRI'd her dogs and one came back where she was told not to breed him and she was looking for a second opinion. Personally I think that rather than loose a bitch or stud they would rather not mention the MRI. As a buyer I don't know where to start to find an honest breeder who will tell you that they have had some of these genetic illnesses in their puppies. Most say NEVER.....If anyone knows anyone who is a breeder who waits the standard time before breeding ( and waiting three years for a dam means she may not produce) let me know. I took a chance. He has some problems that should have been taken care of like an umbilical hernia, ear infection, soft muscles meaning he was not exercised during his six months of life as a puppy should be, he has a penis infection. But otherwise he is sweet just like a Cavalier. I know now, that if anything happens to him I will not get another Cavalier. There are just to many unknowns in this loveable breed to take a chance but ever buyer must be aware that they can get a dog with any of these health problems regardless of what the breeder tells you. Sorry breeders, but I interviewed over 20 and it's all the same. They NEVER had any of these problems. Personally Id rather have honesty than deception so back yard breeders have as much of a chance at producing healthy puppies as big time breeders. Maybe more. But......everyone on this site loves the Cavalier and there are no guarnatees in life. Personally, I'm looking into pet insurance for mine before he turns one.
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Lost my first love to SM at just 3 1/2.

[WoodHaven]

Just some random thoughts

As I was just informed in an email by someone collecting SM information for research-- my two to three year old cavaliers, that passed their MRI's as A's -- could very well have SM by age five. Where does that put us? Back to square one? I can't very well see MRIing all cavaliers 2 or 3 times. AND, what do you say if you passed earlier (had offspring) and now have a syrinx?

Also as was stated before-- there have been cavaliers without syrinxes that show signs of pain and disability. There have been cavaliers with
syrinxes that you wouldn't knew had them without seeing the MRI. This disease is thought to possibly be an example of incomplete penetrance inheritance.

Here is a website that explains more:
http://www.stuarthome.net/health.cfm
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[mollynj]

Thanks for the good info link Sandy. It is one of the strangest disease I've seen. 2 of mine have very slight CM and I was also told that's no guarantee as to their future. Let's hope research will find answers soon.
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Casey, Katie, Murphy, Suzie, Spike, Penny,
Molly and crew

[rodrussell]

[WoodHaven]

[frecklesmom]

With everything that's been said, I think the stand out fact that for a healthy CKCS breed breeders are the lifeline. Beating them up won't help the CkCS. Not everyone reads the scientific reports and gets the same message.